This seems like faulty logic to me. What other things in your life do you affirmatively believe “by default” just because their counter-arguments seem implausible to you? Doesn’t it make more sense to not hold belief in something until you have evidence supporting that belief?
Which part would you like a citation for? I am happy to provide.
The part I quoted: that “the universe formed itself and all matter, presumably from a state of non-being.” I take particular issue with 1) the “formed itself” language, because it sounds a bit like you’re referring to the universe as an entity that can act of its own accord, which I don’t believe is correct, and 2) “presumably from a state of non-being,” because it sounds like you believe science has actually established that there was likely a “state of non-being,” when I don’t know that a “state of non-being” is even something that makes any sense to discuss in a scientific manner. So if you had citations to corroborate the entire statement, that would be ideal.
Edit: and your second paragraph strays pretty far from the original topic of reincarnation. Yes, in a many-worlds interpretation of the cosmos, there are infinitely many copies of me, and an infinite number of them have put their hands through walls as if by magic. But this is pretty different from the commonly-accepted concept of reincarnation, in that you aren’t saying that we are reborn again only when we die, but rather that we exist in infinitely many universes simultaneously.
Lastly, Science tells us that the universe formed itself and all matter, presumably from a state of non-being.
[citation needed]
If “you” can form once, is it so absurd to believe that it could happen twice? If twice, why not an infinite number of times?
I don’t believe it’s impossible. But I’d put the odds of the exact same atoms arranging themselves in the exact same way so as to form another “you” in roughly the same ballpark as me being able to touch the palm of my hand to a 6" thick wall and have it pass right through. Both my hand and the wall are mostly empty space, so it’s possible for the atoms to all align in the correct way for it to happen, but the odds are infinitesimally small.
Obviously you can’t prove it one way or another. That’s the whole point. Are you new?
Nope, I’m old.
But I prefer not to base my life choices on things that are unprovable, and one of us has claims that are backed by at least some amount of evidence (the existence of missionaries, documentation of brainwashing techniques used by the particular church that OP belongs to, documentation of the financial motivations driving said church to continue brainwashing people, the sheer utter logical ridiculousness of the specific claims of that church), and the other does not. So I’ll continue taking the default, rational, skeptical position, until there is sufficient evidence to do otherwise.
You can of course believe whatever you want, but please don’t tell me what I believe, because you’re clearly confused.
I will make this as clear as I can: I absolutely do not make the claim that there is no god. For each of the positive claims for a particular god that I’ve heard, I don’t believe the claims meet their burden of proof. Think of it like a jury in a courtroom: for each god claim I’ve heard presented, thus far I have found that deity “not guilty” of existing. This is not at all the same as asserting that no gods exist.
There are plenty of specific gods that are claimed to exist (Zeus, for example) where I do assert that particular god doesn’t exist. But there are other god claims (a deistic god, for example) where I don’t feel the proposition presented is falsifiable. For that reason, while I do not believe those claims meet their burden of proof, I also feel I cannot honestly assert that the deity doesn’t exist.
The presence of even one deity in the “unfalsifiable” category, IMHO, prevents me from making the claim “no gods exist.” But I am still an atheist, because I hold no theistic beliefs.
Hope this makes sense.
I was trying to disengage peacefully, and I honestly didn’t intend to insult you or declare myself “winner” of anything. But now you’re being dishonest, so you’re blocked. Again, have a good one.
It was an analogy.
I am an a-stamp-collector. I do not collect stamps. This does not necessarily mean I still collect something.
I am also an atheist. I do not believe any claim I have heard about a god. This does not necessarily mean I still believe something (about a deity, or indeed about anything else).
No one has advanced any sort of ontological argument that would hold for a deity, either.
Regardless, thank you for being honest and admitting that you believe what you believe because of feelings and nothing more. I find it hard to have discussions with people who don’t care about the actual truth of what they believe, so I’m gonna disengage here. Have a good one.
We don’t have to get into it, but neither of the options you just gave is the same as “universe from nothing,” which is what you said initially.
I think you’re implying that the claim “the matter and energy that comprise the universe has always existed” is a bad position. If I’m correct on that, why do you feel that way? I feel that it is the claim that best comports with our current understanding of the cosmos.
Atheist.
No arguments that I’ve heard for the existence of a deity have met their burden of proof. For some of these deities (the Abrahamic god, gods of most eastern religions, Zeus, Xenu), I actively assert they do not exist, while for others (e.g. a deistic god) I can’t honestly claim they don’t exist due to the lack of falsifiable claims involved, but I still don’t believe claims that they do exist.
OK, so it sounds like you’re freely admitting that there is currently no test, evidence, measurement, or other way that you can show the truth of your claims.
Edit: Also, I don’t think I’ve ever seen what you’re talking about regarding seeing a spirit’s effect in people’s lives, and I definitely haven’t felt it myself.
Therefore, I claim that while I believe you are being honest and genuinely think you feel a spirit, it doesn’t actually exist, and instead you have been indoctrinated into a cult (which you freely admit you were born into), and that indoctrination has programmed you to believe things that don’t actually exist. I’d like to find a way to determine which of us is correct. How do we do that?
Also, your god vs. universe that started existing out of nothing (which isn’t a thing) argument is a false dichotomy.
Also,
Fairies, however, don’t add anything to the discussion and can therefore be dismissed out of hand.
For a given proposition, I don’t think it makes any sense to use “does it add anything to the discussion” as a criterion for dismissing it. The OP is asking about other claims of supernatural entities, which are simliar to gods at least in terms of their supernatural qualities. You don’t just get to dismiss them. So, rephrasing the OP’s question: given that you have the same amount of direct evidence for the existence of deities and unicorns, why do you believe in one but not the other?
Not collecting stamps is still collecting something.
Every single one of the things you mentioned are claims, not evidence. Maybe I can rephrase my question:
When I buy a delicious Share Size Snickers bar at the 7-11, I see on the package that it claims that the bar weighs 3.86 ounces. It feels a little light to me; I am skeptical of the fact that this particular Share Size Snickers bar weighs what it claims on the package. My options are:
With regard to religion, you appear to be doing only #1, and I’m asking how I can do #2. What are the tools and evidence I can use, akin to the scale, that are independent of the religious text (= the Snickers wrapper) and can show me that your claims are valid?
Please point to a scientific hypothesis or theory that claims that the universe “started existing out of nothing.”
What is your Spirit? Can you describe its properties and offer some evidence to show the rest of us that it exists? How do you know you received an answer to your prayers? How might someone else replicate this experience?
One of the primary assertions of the Big Bang Theory is that the universe has a beginning, and it is thus far the most widely accepted explanation of the origin of the universe.
This may seem like splitting hairs, but please bear with me: this statement is quite incorrect except in the most colloquial sense of the term “beginning.” The big bang describes the processes that led to what we understand as the current presentation of the universe. It does not offer any explanation about the actual origins of the matter and energy that make up the universe; in fact, it requires that they were already present in an extremely hot and dense state for the initial expansion to occur. This is a common misconception among theists and non-scientists and it’s a bit nuanced, but it’s really important. To state in a different way that might more directly counter your statement: my understanding is that the energy and matter that we observe as making up the universe has always existed, and there is no scientific theory that I’m aware of that claims it hasn’t.
Also please tone down the passive aggression. No one said anything about magic, and this isn’t Reddit :)
Speculating about the supposed properties of a creator of the universe that has no evidence of existing is pretty useless. You might as well be talking about magic.
I’m sorry if this comes off as rude or blunt, but here goes:
I am not aware of any evidence that resurrection is possible, or indeed that anything that could be called “supernatural” is real. Don’t you need to establish that before you can claim that arguments for a flipping resurrection seem strong? What am I missing here?