In both cases I think they would deny it.

I don’t have a solution for the 2nd situation (and I don’t think anyone really does), this is more of a social problem. The point I’m making is that in the first scenario there is a clear pattern of denial for those who need help.

In terms of how you differeniate it, my understanding is if the behavior is impacting your life negatively then you would seek help. But I’m not an expert and that’s not a problem we are solving here.

Up next after Elongate

You can freely think that I am one, and I genuinely think I’m not. If you think that I am one, that’s your problem, not mine.

I mean that’s exactly the issue lol. You might not be an alcoholic, but if you were there’s a solid chance you’d deny that fact.There is a good reason why parts of the 12 step program involve admitting and recognizing that there is a problem, and it’s not limited to alcoholism but substance abuse in general.

A lot of people who genuinely need help refuses to see or admit that they do.

It’s because denial is part of being an alcoholic. The same goes with being called a liar.

You know what an even better take is? “We hear you, we’ll take your feedback” or just as good, say nothing at all.

Arguing that you are smarter or wiser than your users / customers is paradoxical. You are by definition not smart if you attempt to do this.

Workaround: insist that customers piss in the beer, citing exceptional flavor-add as a positive side effect. Next version, no budget for a full bathroom, so increment beer mug size to accommodate cross-stream scenarios.

Pico gang reporting in.

EwwbumtEww

Watch your backs, the FoSSHoles are out to getcha.

What happened to writing the “core” of an app that doesn’t rely on UI then simply writing the front ends for each platform you want to support?

What do you mean? I can’t speak for Slack but I’m sure some degree of business logic / client side logic separation exists.

By the way, what you just described is the essence of cross-platform development, rather than an argument for building apps natively.

simply writing the front ends for each platform you want to support?

But why would you rewrite the “front-end” for each platform if you have one you could just port over? Who is going to pay for those 2x developers and what would be the ROI on this effort?

That’s just three (if you don’t write for a million desktops on Linux).

Is it really so hard to support just three environments with only the UI being tailored for the OS it’s running on?

In Slack’s case I’d wager the answer to be a resounding YES. I don’t think you fully grasp the full scope Slack’s capabilities, and the amount of work involved to build native clients for not just one or two, but three different platforms - it’s definitely not just the “UI”.

Honestly, it just feels like poor tooling and a poor excuse.

Quite the opposite - frameworks like Electron let’s devs with your skillset build with the stack you already know, and abstracts away quite a bit of the cross-platform complexities, which strangely enough is what you are suggesting but also what you are arguing against

It has all this support for native platforms yet it’s always a clunky memory hog

Maybe so but it has improved a lot over time. The app devs share some responsibility too so it’s not all on Electron.

zero effort to respect the design language of the OS it’s running on.

That’s the Dev’s design choice, not a limitation of Electron.

I’m on macOS, I want the app to be a native macOS app. If I wanted it to look like a webpage, or Windows, or Linux GTK then I’d switch to one of those and expect it to match those paradigms.

I don’t disagree but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter to enough people for it to become an issue. People are used to Slack and the way it works.

Moreover the cost of building the same app 2x or 3x simply doesn’t make business sense.

Flutter came to market much later. It wasn’t even a thing when Slack started building using Electron. I’m sure the same applies to Tauri as well.

What about Flutter?

For Slack it does. Building an app via Electron means it’s cross-platform by default, so Slack doesn’t need to invest in separate platform teams to solve the same problem (Windows, macOS, Linux).

Electron also has better support for things like native notifications, video and voice calls, offline capabilities, and to other native APIs etc that are either unsupported or spottily supported via the browser.

Calling Slack a webpage is like calling an office building a room.

Slack is just as much a complex app as anything else even if it’s built on web tech and standards.

??

Slack IS an app.

Only 200? Step up your game. Gramps didn’t sub $5.99 / month OF out of his retirement funds for nothing.

Your have this insane idea that the whole country is one big “business”.

Your words, not mine. But businesses tend to want to make money, cut costs and protect their investments (surprise), so you do the math.

Facebook is a business that doesn’t give a single shit about real estate, because they’re not in the business of real estate, and yet they’re bringing their workers back to the office.

I don’t 100% agree, and for every Facebook there is a Microsoft.

But this discussion isn’t going anywhere, mostly about you blowing steam and probably more interesting to you than it is to me, so let’s just agree to disagree.

No but those industries directly impact a wide variety of other industries. You don’t see employers demanding their employees drive around in circles to burn more gas because oil prices dip.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

What other poster?

https://lemmy.myserv.one/comment/1326851

WTF is “remote work culture”? Why does Amazon give a shit about what Target is doing?

See the linked post above.

Why would Facebook give a shit about how much money the government makes from property taxes?

Governments give a shit in this case. Who said anything about Facebook?

Occam’s Razor simple explanation of employees are just more productive in the workplace…

It doesn’t need to be a conspiracy. Business by definition does what they need to do to reduce cost, it’s in their DNA. In fact I posit via Occam’s Razor that the simplest explanation for the back-to-work push is it protects government, business and investors loss from their investments / revenue streams. That’s it, just follow the money. It’s not rocket surgery.

Your position that in-person workstyle is more productive largely depends on the type of job and the company culture. It’s not an one-size-fits-all solution and certainly isn’t “simple”.

What does the absolute number of businesses in an industry have to do with anything? Most companies in the world are not tech or even oil and gas either and you can’t deny the impact of these industries.

What matters is the amount of money and influence in the industry, and in the case of commercial real estate in the US, the market size is in the trillions.

And like another poster said it’s not just real estate either. Sectors like retail, services, transportation are also impacted by remote work culture, not to mention government revenue streams like property taxes.