Oddly enough, its only “modern” Jedi’s who think there’s a danger to attachment, the old Jedis never had an issue. Theres also an entire Jedi sect who roam around the galaxy with husbands and wives.
Oh and ki-adi-mundi, who is a Jedi master on the council, who has multiple wives, their excuse is because his race is dying and the males must procreate. Plenty of other masters have had relationships and hid them or didn’t affect them.
So basically, it’s Yoda who has an issue with attachment, and pushes it on everyone else. What happened to yoda that made him so bitter?
He kept watching Jedi fall to the dark side by losing whatever it was they were attached to. It’s like he took the ideology of Buddhism’s attachment, where you can fall in love and enjoy things but must accept that they will not last forever, and dialed it to 11
Like Anakin and Padme. There’s other examples but that’s the most prevalent.
Which jedis are that? Did Obi-wan fall to the dark side? Ki-adi-Mundo? The entire Jedi sect? Windu? Kit fisto? A few even left the Jedi taking their traditions and doing their own thing, none of them turned from what I’ve read yet.
It’s easy to blame attachment as an escape goat, instead of addressing the problem with the Jedi created with their cult, as well as the sith working against them and using the Jedi against themselves. Yoda isn’t even consistent on his ruling either. This is probably the biggest issue, Jedi seeing others being allowed attachments, but forbidden for them? Yeah that won’t cause issues.
Anakin and padme aren’t the best example, he was being used against the Jedi by the sith from the start.
Anakin had also pedestalized Padme and might have even been force controlling her to be in love with him from the start depending on which fan theories you subscribe to.
To answer the question though, it’s not so much romance alone as obsession. The common thread of all stories of falling to the dark side involves fixation on some prize or goal or object of focus that the Jedi chases to the point of losing all control over themselves and their presence in the force.
Not to mention how fallen Jedi tend to be depicted as much more…angsty than their full fledged sith counterparts. Especially in media like SWTOR there’s a deep contrast between people who adopt the dark side and people who are part of it from the start. For adopters it’s a drug you can overdose on, for people steeped in it from the beginning it’s a steroid that still eventually destroys them but which isn’t a high to pursue in itself.
To answer the question though, it’s not so much romance alone as obsession. The common thread of all stories of falling to the dark side involves fixation on some prize or goal or object of focus that the Jedi chases to the point of losing all control over themselves and their presence in the force.
That’s a great point, but it doesn’t account for all the cases where it allows the Jedi to get through a tough situation and be better for it even. I didn’t want to broaden it too much myself, but a lot of jedis have other attachments, wheter it be their padawan braid… a specific look, or fighting style, almost every padawan is an attachment, if they weren’t, their training wouldn’t work.
For example, Obi wouldn’t be Obi and be able to handle his padawan if it wasn’t for the hardships of overcoming his attachments and using it to help him keep Ani in line.
The Jedi is a cult of hypocrisies and using others to achieve their goals. Also, the main reason why they indoctrinate children is too prevent the sith from getting them first, not such a good look.
Haha in all seriousness though, it’s great how deep the lore goes and how back and forth the black and white goes between the sith and jedi.
IMO Chaos from 40k represents what the Dark Side should represent better, pure bottomless descent.
It keeps taking and taking and taking until there’s nothing left, and then it makes you into a vessel to take from others to sate what you alone no longer can.
It’s damnation, but it’s also an addiction, it’s always eluding you and dancing further away for you to pursue for the next high, and no matter how close you get in that high, no matter how horrified you are by the true face of what you’re chasing when it’s in view, the new low you’ve brought yourself to for what you’re chasing, the new feat of horror you’ve subjected yourself and at this point your victims to, once it’s beyond your reach once more you can’t help but fall for the beautiful lie once more and resume the chase.
Darth Sidious isn’t a pinnacle of the dark side, he’s just the strongest crab in the bucket.
might have even been force controlling her to be in love with him from the start depending on which fan theories you subscribe to.
Man, that is a hilarious idea for explaining away the stiff dialog and delivery. Do you have any links handy? I really hope there’s more to that theory than that.
Idk if there’s any actual evidence for it. Just theory brought up by EU storylines. Like force connections where two people are connected through the force in a way that they can influence each other.
It’s the same power used in the theory of Padme’s death. The theory is that Anakin stole her energy through the force without realizing and killed her to save himself. So if they were already connected to the point Anakin could subconsciously push her into loving him he could just push that a step further and steal her life energy.
I’m reading the entire legends/EU series chronologically, about 1/3 the way through right now, on The Cestus Deception. Which is during the Clone Wars.
One day he was walkin’ and he found this big log. Then he rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick and he was like, “That log had a child!”. Then a seagull squawk and he said “Listen, boy Someday when you are older You could get hit by a boulder While you’re lyin’ there, screamin’, Come help me please! The seagulls, mmgh, poke your knees”
That’s why yoda has issues with attachments because seagulls are gonna come at you. It’s either that or yoda used to be an IT guy and everyone keeps on clicking the phishing mail attachments
Lucas always said the Jedi were basically meant to just knight coded Buddhists, but actual Buddhism rejects both hedonism, and asceticism.
Chasing perfection out of fear is also giving in to the dark side, because in doing so you deprive yourself and others of the simple joys of the world, when those things are what keeps us human.
The path to enlightenment isn’t to surpass humanity, it’s to fully recognize and embrace the cosmic essence of what humanity, and all other things are.
The attachment thing became dogma after the fifth time the Sith turned the strongest of a generation of Jedi against them.
But I’m sure they learned from that and - oh, nope, they all got killed that time. Because this time the Dark Jedi didn’t have his redemption arc before the Republic got clapped for good, whoopsie!
Maybe that’s something the high republic arc will explore more in coming years. It seems to me that it’s simply a result of the fiction of the extended universe stories being reconciled with Lucas’s core story. Different writers perspectives all getting rolled together in to one. Sometimes the writers have a solid, well thought out perspective, sometimes not.
Oddly enough, its only “modern” Jedi’s who think there’s a danger to attachment, the old Jedis never had an issue. Theres also an entire Jedi sect who roam around the galaxy with husbands and wives.
Oh and ki-adi-mundi, who is a Jedi master on the council, who has multiple wives, their excuse is because his race is dying and the males must procreate. Plenty of other masters have had relationships and hid them or didn’t affect them.
So basically, it’s Yoda who has an issue with attachment, and pushes it on everyone else. What happened to yoda that made him so bitter?
He kept watching Jedi fall to the dark side by losing whatever it was they were attached to. It’s like he took the ideology of Buddhism’s attachment, where you can fall in love and enjoy things but must accept that they will not last forever, and dialed it to 11
Like Anakin and Padme. There’s other examples but that’s the most prevalent.
Which jedis are that? Did Obi-wan fall to the dark side? Ki-adi-Mundo? The entire Jedi sect? Windu? Kit fisto? A few even left the Jedi taking their traditions and doing their own thing, none of them turned from what I’ve read yet.
It’s easy to blame attachment as an escape goat, instead of addressing the problem with the Jedi created with their cult, as well as the sith working against them and using the Jedi against themselves. Yoda isn’t even consistent on his ruling either. This is probably the biggest issue, Jedi seeing others being allowed attachments, but forbidden for them? Yeah that won’t cause issues.
Anakin and padme aren’t the best example, he was being used against the Jedi by the sith from the start.
Anakin had also pedestalized Padme and might have even been force controlling her to be in love with him from the start depending on which fan theories you subscribe to.
To answer the question though, it’s not so much romance alone as obsession. The common thread of all stories of falling to the dark side involves fixation on some prize or goal or object of focus that the Jedi chases to the point of losing all control over themselves and their presence in the force.
Not to mention how fallen Jedi tend to be depicted as much more…angsty than their full fledged sith counterparts. Especially in media like SWTOR there’s a deep contrast between people who adopt the dark side and people who are part of it from the start. For adopters it’s a drug you can overdose on, for people steeped in it from the beginning it’s a steroid that still eventually destroys them but which isn’t a high to pursue in itself.
That’s a great point, but it doesn’t account for all the cases where it allows the Jedi to get through a tough situation and be better for it even. I didn’t want to broaden it too much myself, but a lot of jedis have other attachments, wheter it be their padawan braid… a specific look, or fighting style, almost every padawan is an attachment, if they weren’t, their training wouldn’t work.
For example, Obi wouldn’t be Obi and be able to handle his padawan if it wasn’t for the hardships of overcoming his attachments and using it to help him keep Ani in line.
The Jedi is a cult of hypocrisies and using others to achieve their goals. Also, the main reason why they indoctrinate children is too prevent the sith from getting them first, not such a good look.
Haha in all seriousness though, it’s great how deep the lore goes and how back and forth the black and white goes between the sith and jedi.
IMO Chaos from 40k represents what the Dark Side should represent better, pure bottomless descent.
It keeps taking and taking and taking until there’s nothing left, and then it makes you into a vessel to take from others to sate what you alone no longer can.
It’s damnation, but it’s also an addiction, it’s always eluding you and dancing further away for you to pursue for the next high, and no matter how close you get in that high, no matter how horrified you are by the true face of what you’re chasing when it’s in view, the new low you’ve brought yourself to for what you’re chasing, the new feat of horror you’ve subjected yourself and at this point your victims to, once it’s beyond your reach once more you can’t help but fall for the beautiful lie once more and resume the chase.
Darth Sidious isn’t a pinnacle of the dark side, he’s just the strongest crab in the bucket.
Man, that is a hilarious idea for explaining away the stiff dialog and delivery. Do you have any links handy? I really hope there’s more to that theory than that.
Idk if there’s any actual evidence for it. Just theory brought up by EU storylines. Like force connections where two people are connected through the force in a way that they can influence each other.
It’s the same power used in the theory of Padme’s death. The theory is that Anakin stole her energy through the force without realizing and killed her to save himself. So if they were already connected to the point Anakin could subconsciously push her into loving him he could just push that a step further and steal her life energy.
It’s theorized that palps the one that did it, iirc in EU he steals other people’s life force to stay alive already.
Cant recall the sith Holocron it came from, but there’s definitely past sith who abused it.
If it’s legends material it could have deffo been Nihilus, man eats entire planets to sustain himself
Stang, it was Bane, not Palps.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Holocron_of_Heresies
I’m reading the entire legends/EU series chronologically, about 1/3 the way through right now, on The Cestus Deception. Which is during the Clone Wars.
I’ve heard both theories
One day he was walkin’ and he found this big log. Then he rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick and he was like, “That log had a child!”. Then a seagull squawk and he said “Listen, boy Someday when you are older You could get hit by a boulder While you’re lyin’ there, screamin’, Come help me please! The seagulls, mmgh, poke your knees”
That’s why yoda has issues with attachments because seagulls are gonna come at you. It’s either that or yoda used to be an IT guy and everyone keeps on clicking the phishing mail attachments
Yaddle musta made him look like a horny little creep at the life day party one year after turning down a move
More seriously, Dark Side Yoda from the Netflix finale of the clone wars constantly talked about not being allowed to come out and play,
This makes me think that Yoda had a Ghandi complex, complete with the very weird notions of needing to resist the thiccness to achieve maximum powaz.
That’s definitely part of it, any tiny slip and the sith can abuse it, so the only protection is perfection?
Kinda but also kinda not.
Lucas always said the Jedi were basically meant to just knight coded Buddhists, but actual Buddhism rejects both hedonism, and asceticism.
Chasing perfection out of fear is also giving in to the dark side, because in doing so you deprive yourself and others of the simple joys of the world, when those things are what keeps us human.
The path to enlightenment isn’t to surpass humanity, it’s to fully recognize and embrace the cosmic essence of what humanity, and all other things are.
The attachment thing became dogma after the fifth time the Sith turned the strongest of a generation of Jedi against them.
But I’m sure they learned from that and - oh, nope, they all got killed that time. Because this time the Dark Jedi didn’t have his redemption arc before the Republic got clapped for good, whoopsie!
Maybe that’s something the high republic arc will explore more in coming years. It seems to me that it’s simply a result of the fiction of the extended universe stories being reconciled with Lucas’s core story. Different writers perspectives all getting rolled together in to one. Sometimes the writers have a solid, well thought out perspective, sometimes not.