i think this thread is already trending in a poor in terms of actually, productively discussing this pretty serious event—and, speaking in a moderator capacity, i would also strongly prefer a direct journalistic source on that event to a second-hand source like this youtube video. so, fair warning to all participants: if this thread continues to go poorly i’ll likely remove it and start a fresh thread myself.
I support Gaza being freed but I’m getting tired of this blatant propaganda.
I think I have a different understanding of the word propaganda than how the word was used here, because I’m having a hard time understanding this comment. Could you explain how this video can be described as propaganda?
This is grossly misleading reporting.
The deaths were caused by a stampede. Very small number of people were fired on after approaching a military checkpoint and after warning fires.
Still a tragedy, but nothing like what the title makes it out to be.
Source:
A stampede caused by Israel forces opening fire on the crowd.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-war-israel-deaths-aid-b2504850.html
The IDF has claimed they opened “limited fire” to “stop looting.”
So after starving the Palestinians by disallowing aid for weeks, when these desperate people mob the trucks as any starving people would, Israel forces started killing them. As expected, everyone panicked and even more death occured.
How is “shooting at starving refugees to start a deadly stampede” not Israel’s fault?
A stampede caused by Israel forces opening fire on the crowd.
It is not helpful that you just made that up on the spot. Not even close to what you linked to, or what both sides claim.
Directly in my linked article:
Kamel Abu Nahel, who was being treated for a gunshot wound at al-Shifa Hospital, said he and others went to the distribution point in the middle of the night because they heard there would be a delivery of food. “We’ve been eating animal feed for two months,” he told Associated Press.
He said Israeli troops opened fire on the crowd, causing it to scatter, with some people hiding under cars. After the shooting stopped, people went back to the trucks, and the soldiers opened fire again, he said. He was shot in the leg and fell over, and then a truck ran over his leg as it sped off, he said. The head of Kamal Adwan hospital in Gaza City, Hussam Abu Safieyah, said it had received 10 dead bodies and dozens of wounded patients from the incident west of the city. Videos posted on social media showed trucks carrying bodies.
In the same article, Israel claims the aid trucks drove too close to their tanks, and that when people the desperate, starving people ran to the trucks for the Isreal had been denying them, the IDG “fired into the air and then fired at anyone who did not back down.”
So even the IDF sanitized “they were coming right at us” defense admits they fired into the crowd of starving refugees.
That’s not the description of a stampede which would result in killing 100+ people, even if true.
We will probably never know exactly what happened, as we only have IDF- and Hamas-controlled reporting of it, both obviously heavily skewed.
But the claim that this is Israeli military simply shooting to murder 100+ people is to say the least obviously unsubstantiated.
Bot the person you replied to. You might be right, but…
least obviously unsubstantiated
Better avoid overstatements. That kind of rhetoric on SNS signals a poor debate in the replies to come. And I’m not going to reply to you because I don’t want a poor debate.
This was a crowd of thousands of starving, displaced people, crushed around aid trucks, desperately trying to get food. The IDF, by their own admittance, fired automatic weapons into that crowd. This caused panicked, crushing surges that killed most of the people, that caused the truck drivers to flee, killing more. These were starving people trying to avoid being gunned down by the IDF while they desperately tried to get food.
Crowd crushes are incredibly dangerous in even normal situations. People die at soccer games when crowds panic, at music shows.
We dont know how many starving people they killed directly, but they are 100% culpable for these crowd crush/truck escape deaths that resulted from their direct actions. You dont panic a large crowd, especially a large crowd of desperate people, or you will cause deaths.
Why are you excusing the IDF from firing into a crowd, causing the panic that killed these people?
I am not excusing anybody, I am just tired of the blatant propaganda with zero reliable sources.
What you describe is horrible, and also it is simply not real, but entirely the result of your imagination. No source claims any of this the way you describe it.
In fact the latest reports describe two separate events, one where the stampede occurred, with no IDF involvement, and another event where there was a shooting at a check point. There is NO way to know what exactly happened from behind the keyboard. At this point all your claims are only the reflection of your beliefs, and nothing more.
Bullshit.
It’s moments like these that I get just a little more hopeless for our species.
The fact that this is happening in front of our eyes and the US keeps supporting it… Fucking ghouls
The fact that I keep being told I have to vote for the monster perpetuating this…. Fucking ghouls
The same monster that, in the 80s, called for the murder of Palestinian women and children.
Now ask yourself, would you vote for Trump 40 years from now? Because that’s what you’re doing with Biden.
Yeah no, you’re fucking insane or stupid.
Unfortunately the only way I see Democrats coming around is by demonstrating to them in material terms that zionists cannot win elections, that there’s a certain point beyond which you cannot vote shame democratic voters into supporting or overlooking this kind of evil.
I’m not someone who wants Trump, I personally am in a group that will be directly and severely effected by a GOP presidency before most, but the only way to get the Democratic party on a track for a future that isn’t just “not as far right as the GOP” is to let them learn that neoliberalism is an abject failure and has no future. That it’s unteneable to hold people’s rights hostage as a threat.
If the party doesn’t realize that then we are going to just continue sliding further to the right until a few cycles from now it’s the same as if Trump had won anyway.
