Like, we’ll probably find out that eating boogers actually makes you immune to select illnesses or something crazy like that.

  • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    Yes, but if there is true free will, the universe would not be perfectly predictable. If it is, then there could not be free will. Luckily, it isn’t.

    • blackstrat@lemmy.fwgx.uk
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      5 days ago

      I would say deterministic rather than predictable.

      I think the universe is deterministic and that there isn’t something inside our heads that bypasses determinism and creates free will.

      • absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz
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        3 days ago

        But we know for sure that the universe is not deterministic.

        From a fundamental level, it is probabilistic.

        Simple experiments can show this chaotic action.
        Take for example the dripping tap experiment. The time for next drop cannot be predicted by knowing the timing of the previous drops!
        This is not a random process, there is a pattern, but it is also clearly not deterministic.

        • blackstrat@lemmy.fwgx.uk
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          3 days ago

          We can’t predict it because we can’t possibly know everything. But unpredictably isn’t the same as randomness or implies nondeterministic behaviour.

          • absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz
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            2 days ago

            If you are really interested, look into the uncertainty principle.

            At this point in science we are as convinced as is possible to be; that the universe is probabilistic in nature.

            • blackstrat@lemmy.fwgx.uk
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              2 days ago

              The uncertainty principle says what the limits are on our knowledge of a given scenario, not that the universe which is running the show has such a limit.

              • absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz
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                2 days ago

                Your argument is circular.

                In your view, determinism requires impossible perfect knowledge. It only seems probabilistic, because we can’t do the impossible.

                This is also not a technology problem. These are not limits we can overcome.

                • blackstrat@lemmy.fwgx.uk
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                  2 days ago

                  I’m saying ‘we’- humans, don’t enter in to it at all. Knowledge and prediction are human things. I’m saying they don’t apply to the universe itself which is what is running things. The state of things is what it is, irrespective of ourselves. We humans will never know enough to be able to predict perfectly, but that doesn’t mean the matter and nature aren’t running deterministicly.

                  • absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz
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                    2 days ago

                    It is not “just” quantum physics that shows the deterministic universe is impossible.

                    Relativity theory shows, there is no “universal clock”, this is distinct from Newtonian physics which assumes a single universal clock.

                    You may not want to accept that the universe is not deterministic, and there are big gaps in our understanding of reality, but this isn’t one of them. On a fundamental level, the universe is probabilistic.

                    You are in good company however, Einstein famously said “god doesn’t play dice with the universe”, when he initially discovered this fact. He came to accept its reality, at the evidence is overwhelming.