I’d expect the state to have a list of all its citizens and their basic personal info (age) which could be used to determine their eligibility for voting. In my country, we get a “invitation” to the vote, with your voter station and info on how to change it.
Instead, I’m seeing posts about USA’s “voter rolls”, which are sometimes purged, which prevents people from voting. Isn’t this an attack on the voting system and democracy itself?
So why doesn’t USA have a list of voters? Are they stupid?
Because voting regulations are left to the State governments, and each state government does it slightly differently, often with designs that are specifically intended to disenfranchise specific voters.
Further, because of the Electoral College, it is very important WHERE you vote. If I live in New York, I can’t vote in Pennsylvania. I get lumped together with everyone in New York.
So my registration ties me to a “permanent address” that aligns with a state, their electoral college contribution, and the rules they’ve put in place to gather, validate, and verify the vote, all mixed with manipulation over the years to swing the vote wherever possible (see: gerrymandering)
And of course because it’s done this way, it’s easier for State governments to disenfranchise people that they don’t want voting. Why yes it is a corrupt and broken system. Thank you for asking.
We do have “permanent address” here too and it is used to determine the voter station and district and thus the representative candidates you can vote.
Is the “permanent address” a thing just for the voting system, or is it used for other bureaucracy as well?
Governmental agencies typically dont share data like that so you would have to give them your address separately. Imo its partially a republican “hurr no big govt” and jim crow type deal where republicans want to keep poor people and colored people from voting (less likely to have the time to register or have a fixed address).
Republican?
Funny, I remember Democrats 50 years ago being anti-establishment.
Make up your mind.
Independently. I don’t there is any connection, but yes I have a residence for determining where I vote and who for, my city lists my primary residence for property tax purposes (investment/rental property is taxed more) and excise tax, my state department of revenue lists my residence for income tax but they may coordinate with IRS which does the same. My drivers license has my residence address but I don’t know if they need to be the same nor does it need to be the same as my car’s location, etc
Can’t have a permanent address if a hurricane blows your wee Lego house away taps forehead
Sorry, Florida doesn’t have Lego houses. Their building codes require reinforced concrete ground floors (ground floor is block, with cement and rebar inside), and hurricane strapping for roofs.
We have extra tough building codes. Hell, I have a Habitat for Humanity home, 30-miles inland, and it has the roof strapped to the foundation and 140mph rated windows.
But concrete ground floors aren’t required, at least not off the beach. Even the newer beach homes are sticks and stucco. Maybe being on stilts negates any ground floor rule?
Funny you mention block though. The 50s beach houses are all 1-story cinder block, and unlike the new construction, they still exist.
That only works after all the older buildings have been washed away
So if you’re on holiday in another state, let’s say… you can’t walk out of your hotel and vote? You have to be physically in your home state during election time to mark a ballot.
Wild.
There are mail in ballots, but thats why republicans hate them so much. It means our votes get counted
In particular there’s always been a way for the military to vote
Sort of, it’s common for some military ballots to arrive too late and not be counted.
That’s where things get crazy since the local implementation is local.
My state makes it easy to register to vote: automatic when getting or renewing a drivers license or id. We have a reliable system, and many polling stations, and everyone gets a mailer for early/mail-in voting. For me voting has always been walk a couple blocks to my neighborhood elementary school and walk back, either before or after work. There’s never much of a line so it takes a couple minutes, and polls are open the maximum time so you can vote despite work.
Some of the stories coming from other states are as alien to me as they probably are to you. How could there be one drop off location for early votes for the entire city of Houston? How can some localities get away with so few machines and so few locations that there are lines? How can someone stay out of jail if they’re purging voter rolls just before an election or without due diligence? How is there even a big line in the hot sun such that someone can make a big deal of providing water to people trying to vote?
Different system, no central registration. Just look at the lack of a standardized ID.
It’s 1840 over there in that regard.
There is no central id system in the US. There are several things that are close to a national id, like social security numbers, but they are also explicitly not allowed to be used as an id. There’s a very long history of US citizens opposing the creation of any sort of national registry.
States have id systems, but they still require a person to manually register for them. There’s limited interaction between states, so it’s possible to appear as a citizen of two states simultaneously, this is solved with eventual consistency and fraud charges for those who abuse it.
It’s getting better in some states, where they can update your voting registration when you change your address. Voting rolls are managed at the city and township level where they generally don’t have the resources to properly integrate data, which leads to outdated lists where a one bedroom apartment may have 10 different voters registered that lived there at one point. There’s no great way of knowing who the legitimate voters are, and who should be purged as they are no longer eligible to vote there.
There is a need to do some cleaning of the voter rolls, as accurate ones make planning easier. Printing a ballot for each name is wasteful if you know 20% of the names aren’t valid, but running out of ballots is unacceptable. Purging people who haven’t voted in say 20 years can reduce the number of bad names, but it will almost definitely affect a few people that haven’t moved and haven’t voted in 20 years. The attack on democracy is more theoretical than practical, that a person is going to suddenly start voting after not doing it for so long.
This is a big bruh moment for me as a foreigner
Are they stupid?
Yup!
They keep doing things as if electoral results needed to be delivered via horseback so…
Every time I go to the states I feel like I’m in a developing country. I’ve been I places in Africa that feel more like a developed country.
Usa is 50 banana republics in a trenchcoat
51 if you count Guam
I’ve been in places in Africa that feel more like a developed country.
Which places? Please name them.
South Africa, Morocco, Mauritius.
Lot of dumb comments here. Everyone in a country with voting registers to vote, you just may not realize it. In order to vote in an election, the government needs to know that 1) you are a citizen, 2) you are alive, and 3) where you live so they know you can vote in that local district.
Ask yourself, if you moved across your country, how would you vote in those local elections? The answer is that you would register to vote there. You may not see it that way, cause that “registration” may be dual purposed with some other act (like getting a new drivers license), but you are letting the government know you can vote there. Most places in the US (at least everywhere I’ve lived, I think) allowed me to register to vote when I got my new ID.
The thing that makes it a little different in the US is that registering to vote isn’t strictly tied to anything else. If you move from one city to another within the same state, or if you choose not to get a new drivers license in a new state, the government will have no clue where you live. You aren’t required to give the government that information. The only time you have to give the government an address is to file taxes (maybe not even then). That doesn’t occur until spring, so if you move in the summer, there’s no way for the government to know that you can vote in a different place if you don’t tell them.
Canadian here.
if you moved across your country, how would you vote in those local elections?
I would literally just show up to the polls on election day and show a piece of ID and something (utility bill, etc) with my new address and tell them I want to vote. Or I would bring a friend and they would sign a statement affirming I’m who I say I am.
You may not see it that way, cause that “registration” may be dual purposed with some other act (like getting a new drivers license)
This is the problem, the list of citizens, and list of registered voters should not be two completely separate lists. You should be able to vote no matter what if you are a citizen
There is no “list of citizens”, though. Well, there are things like social security, but they aren’t tied to where you live the way that voting has to be.
I would literally just show up to the polls on election day and show a piece of ID and something (utility bill, etc) with my new address and tell them I want to vote.
This is broadly how it works here, it’s just that most states don’t want to do it same-day since that bogs down the lines on election day.
My point is that “registering to vote” just means proving that you can vote, and no matter where you live, you have to do that somehow.
There is no “list of citizens”, though. Well, there are things like social security, but they aren’t tied to where you live the way that voting has to be.
There is no need to have it tied to where you live though, which is the point. Every other democracy in the world is content to verify a) citizenship and b) proof of address independently, but it’s just the states where you need to register ahead of time to a 3rd list specific for voting and remain vigilant that you haven’t been purged off that list come election day
it’s just that most states don’t want to do it same-day since that bogs down the lines on election day
It literally doesn’t though. 95% of the people at every poll station are known ahead of time because they still live at the same address they last procured government services from - they can move through the line at the speed it takes to verify their name and cross it off the list. Each station has a separate line for day-of voters, and it takes 2-3 minutes to get set up at most (I’ve done it at least a half dozen times)
My point is that “registering to vote” just means proving that you can vote, and no matter where you live, you have to do that somehow
This isn’t disputed, the OPs question above is why it needs to be explicitly done as a separate step in the states. It’s the only place in the world where stopping 2-3 ineligible voters from casting a ballot seemingly takes a greater priority than allowing dozens of eligible american citizens from participating in democracy
It’s not usually explicitly done as a separate step in the States. When most people move, they just check a box to register to vote when they are getting their new ID.
The reason that it can be a separate step is that there’s nothing requiring you to have an ID if you don’t want to have one, and the people most likely to not have an ID are poor/homeless/otherwise disadvantaged. That’s when you need to explicitly provide your local election people with some kind of proof of identification and proof of address.
you left out that registration is also a way to keep black and Hispanic people from voting by imposing “rules and requirements”. been that way in the US for a LONG time unfortunately.
Are you saying that Black and Hellospanic people don’t follow rules and requirements? That sounds rather like a generalization to me
The goal is to disenfranchise black and hispanic voters by putting up barriers that are difficult for them to get past. Typically something like requiring photo ID to vote, and also making it so that getting that ID can only be done during hours where most people work means that the poor can’t afford to take time off work to get them. This disproportionately affects black and hispanic people.
So it’s not that they don’t follow rules, it’s that the rules are aimed at being hard for them to follow.
I totally get it, I hate following hard rules too. If we believe the system is stacked against us, why don’t we just assume the whole thing is racist? Then we can just send one guy to get the driver’s license, and we can pass off his photo as all of us!
Not really. Where I’m from(Eastern Europe) as long as you’re of legal age and have a valid ID, you can vote, you don’t need to register anywhere. Now, for local (mayor, city council, etc) and parliamentary elections you can vote only in the district to which you belong, as per the home address you have in your ID. For presidential an European parliamentary elections, you can vote ANYWHERE. So no one registers anywhere.
So, changing the address on your ID serves as a change of registration. Which is what he said and exactly how it works where I am in the US.
I’m not sure how that would work: is your vote tied to your identity?
Having a registration of all legal voters allows you to verify people only vote once, only legitimate votes are counted, and your vote can be anonymous.
No one knows who I voted for (except probably all of Lemmy, lmao), but on my way in I verified who I am, and they checked off that I was listed as a voter, and checked me off as having voted.
There is a check via an ID scanner before going into the voting booth that ensures you’ve only voted once. No one know who I voted for either. The only downside to this is that if you haven’t updated your ID when changing address, you would have to go to the district on your ID to vote. This somehow makes sense since for parliamentary elections, for example, you have different candidates for different districts.
In cases like that for us, I think there’s some sort of provisional voting where you cast your ballot but it’s not counted until everything checks out. In your example, perhaps they’d confirm you moved and make sure you only voted in the one location. It’s not something they can do immediately though. However I’ve never had reason to find out the details on this so I may be a bit off base
It sounds like you are from a country that requires you to have an ID. So effectively, you are required to register to vote by getting an ID. In the US, you are not required to have an ID, so the government has no way of knowing your home address by default.