What is your line in the sand?
Edit: thank you all for your responses. I think it’s important as an American we take your view points seriously. I think of a North Korean living inside of North Korea. They don’t really know how bad it is because that is all hidden from them and they’ve never had anything else. As things get worse for Americans it’s important to have your voices because we will become more and more isolated.
Even the guy who said, “lol.” Some people need that sort of sobering reaction.
Never have, they are ruled by their uniparty and indeed they can’t see outside their box.
I am probably that lol guy.It’s what they call a “flawed democracy” now. It’s not at the point where thousands of people simply disappear and every aspect of political life is dictated by one party’s leadership.
But it’s sliding downward.Sure, though the developments are worrying. If Donald gets a third term, I will consider USA an autocracy.
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I grew up in the US and have lived outside it for 10 years now. I would agree with this. Voting and representation have never been total and is definitely less available for many groups. Further things are being stripped away.
Yeah. My wake-up call was quite early in life, when SCOTUS handed the election to GWB. If I was born a generation earlier I’d have called it with Watergate. If I was an ancestor currently dead, I would have called it around the time an assassin put the presidency in the hands of the opposite party, and a drunk asshole subsequently decided reconstruction efforts should fail. Or possibly just prior, when we somehow decided not to hang every man Jack of the confederacy for treason.
Edit: an earlier still version of me would have overseen the death of a culture brought on by poxy mad white religious extremists, and laughed ruefully to hear that centuries later the utter bastardy continues unchanged.
This
exactly, two party system completely pulls the pants down for top1% lobbyism to be rampantly in control
also the media influence on elections is out of control
See, as a German, when I see a country go down the same route as the Weimar Republic after handing over the power to the Nazi party, I think it’s just very obvious. Hitler took some two months to completely destroy democracy, and the US are juuust in the middle of that. History doesn’t repeat, but sometimes it rhymes, and the similarities are just remarkable.
So yeah, I guess that would be a big fat trench in the sand.
As a German also I agree with this statement. Ostensibly it is a democracy but in reality it’s not. And yes, there is a lot of rhyming going on
still consider
It has only two political parties, and a weird system where all votes are not equal and the actual vote majority doesn’t always win.
It has frequently had multiple people from the same families running for office, and only wealthy people have a shot. Corporations get to lobby for laws in their favour.
It also spies on its own citizens, holds people indefinitely without trial, has a huge prison population, a militarized police with a high homicide rate, and is the only western nation with the death penalty.
Trump and Musk are laying bare how fragile the veneer of “democracy” really is in that country.
To be honest, not even from the start was it a true democracy, the Electoral College is a layer on top of democracy to give different weight to each vote.
A struggling democracy, in the beginning of an Orban/Hungary-like overtake of the country.
Its possible to revert, but you seem to have atleast a 1/3 of the country that would walk down a straight up facist line willingly and happily do so.
You need to fix your shit america.
Line in the sand? Going after political opponents. Censoring information. Dismantling media. Abandoning rule of law. Business and government mixing too much.
USA is speed running these.
I consider it an autocratic regime with strong fascist characteristics.
I consider America to be a plutocracy, which successfully propagandized the majority with the illusion of democracy, now transitioning into a Christian fascist kleptocracy… Basically a mafia state / corporate dictatorship using religion to control the masses (as is tradition).
If you think it’s not very Christian, that’s because most Christians consider Jesus’s teachings to be evil communism.
Am Dutch. I have considered the US an incomplete democracy since I learned about voting in school. It’s not one person one vote, which to me is crucial for a democracy. The US right now is still a nation of laws, but democracy is sharply in decline. The voter-roll issues and Gerrymandering come to mind immediately. Not to mention the fact that guaranteed access to polls has been pulled by the courts. Which is insane to me.
Also president having so much power was clearly never democratic to begin with as we can see it all play out now.
The power of the president did not start out like this. Congress kept giving their power to the executive for political reasons.
It happened over centuries.
$ is votes, who could have seen where that would go.
Canadian here.
Before Trump? Ehhh, not really. I’ve always viewed the US as a place where you vote for which oligarch-backed monarch you’d want to put in absolute power for 4 years. Every 4/8 years the new incoming overlord just rips up whatever the previous one did and nothing of substance is actually achieved.
After Trump 2.0? No. There isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that Trump is going to surrender all that power he and the GOP have accumulated. And why would he? He doesn’t have to. He literally controls every branch of government that he can and ignores those that he doesn’t. If the US ever has another election it will purely be for show, like China’s elections. The mask is now fully off and the charade of US democracy is over as those who actually wield the power now do so openly on their sleeves.
China’s democracy is among party members.
Oh I love parties! I’ll bring the glowsticks!
Absolutely not. A two party system was barely nominally a form of democracy. Current government walks like a dictatorship and quacks like a dictatorship. They might hold a fake election one day like many of those do, but still no.
Firstly, the USA is obviously not a “dictatorship”. Come on, be serious. Words mean things.
Second, America’s two-party system also has internal factions and primaries, many of them completely open (you don’t even need to declare allegiance to the party). The primaries are effectively the first round in a two-round electoral system (of which there are plenty in the world). The whole point is to create a binary choice in the final round. For some reason this always gets missed by otherwise informed observers. “There are only two parties” is just not a valid argument in this debate.
Of course, none of these facts will be popular here, since the real point of this thread is to allow participants to performatively dump on the shared hate-object. Classic social media, I get it.
Firstly, the USA is obviously not a “dictatorship”.
You sure about that? Have you read the news lately?
Yeah I have and saying that kinda just makes you seem uninformed.
Like the people who call the US “a 3rd world country in a Gucci belt”. It just makes it super obvious that you don’t understand how high quality of a life the average person has in the US. Especially globally.
I’m not going to list all the red flags, but there is a reason people feel like this. A few major ones, president talking about taking over other countries out of the blue, attacking our allies to the point where Americans are suffering much more than necessary, his sidekick doing Nazi salutes on stage, literal commercials for his $idekick on the white house lawn.
It’s pretty clear there is no rule of law for blatant corruption and no accountability. Replace USA/Trump with Russia/Putin or NK/Un, guess what, same shit, different smell. Either follow orders or get shipped out is the example they’re trying to set, as well as making free speech illegal.
We’re FAR from a functioning democracy.
Well think about a lot of the characteristics of the US and maybe you’ll at least see where they’re coming from. It’s not about 100% accuracy as much as perspective. And it seems like it’d hard to shatter illusions some people there have.
High poverty rate compared to developed countries, low literacy rates compared to developed countries, Highly authoritarian, highly propagandised, militia compounds spread throughout.
You you can be taken and imprisoned in a desert camp, fed expired food, put in a chain gang and not that it would be OK otherwise, but you haven’t been convicted of a crime.
Constant terrorist attacks.
You can be put in solitary until you have psychosis and youre smearing feces on the walls, and then the confessions you give after that can be used in court.
There was a mass protest of slave Labour and the slaves were starved until they went back to work.
You can be disappeared and have your residency revoked for protesting war crimes. You had someone who worked in your torture camps run to be a candidate for president and they got far.
Child marriage is legal.
People are sent back to a polluted industrial hazard town after train derailment and all the animals are dead and they’re complaining of chemical burns. If they complain the get dragged out by cops.
Food standards not accepted elsewhere. Companies can poison large parts of the population and even if they’re punished its an amount that still means the profited from it
They took a guy who promoted health misinformation that led to dead kids and they put him in charge of health, even though a worm ate his brain.
Expansionist, aggressive, worships the military but fucks over veterans, complains about first responders injured on the job getting health care, so they scrapped it. Constantly chasing culture was BS, never quite left the satanic panic.
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The USA is categorized by people who have studied this subject more closely than you (or me) as a flawed democracy. This is a dumb discussion. That’s all I have to say here.
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I don’t discuss with people who downvote my comments. You clearly don’t care what I have to say. Good night.
How do we see who downvotes?
I know they had that on kbin but not Lemmy. I want to see it too. Which client or frontend are you using?
I just extrapolated. Their comment was posted at the same time as a downvote.
If they denied it I would apologize.
I don’t discuss with people who downvote my comments.
So you only discuss with yourself?
You clearly don’t care what I have to say.
There is some truth in that, I only pay attention to people who have a valid point.
In practice, however, it is a two-party system.
The primaries that are not required to be democratic and can simply be rigged by the party?
I wouldn’t call America a dictatorship yet, but I would claim that it is heading there at a rapid pace. Trump and Republicans actions such as disregarding the Constitution, removing rights, beginning mass deportations including legals, bringing in a billionaire to shred the government, and ignoring court orders is not a good look for a democratic government.
Yes, I know all that and I completely agree. It’s all but impossible to imagine that the USA will ever be an actually dictatorship, despite the ignorant shrieking around here. Because of its traditions of individual freedom and federalism.
But it’s obviously looking less and less like democracy.
Its not about popular. You are simply wrong.
While I don’t consider the system of governance there very good, I’ll have to agree. While I do absolutely worry for the American democracy, it isn’t a dictatorship in its current form. I also agree that the primaries do make the system better and more democratic. I still think that the two part system is abysmal, but the primaries do make the claim to democracy stronger.
That’s a balanced and fair-minded take. Unfortunately it won’t be appreciated here, because what people are looking for in this thread is catharsis and confirmation of their biases.
Absolutely not. When laws don’t apply to the president, the jig is up. Trump clearly plans to be in power forever. Either there won’t be elections or they’ll be rigged.
all those images of venezualen immigrants … being handled like the absolute worst possible being… its crazy
The US had always been a questionable democracy with the hyperfixation on the president and just two parties setting the agenda, but I’d argue that it’s still a democracy, though it is a rapidly deteriorating one.
I never considered it a democracy. It’s one-party system with two parties, what can be democratic about it? Smoke and mirrors.
