And then the people all clapped and patted themselves on the back for saving the guy and went about their day. But the guy went back to the same life full of problems that led him to despair. Crippling debt or depression. Estrangement from loved ones that are no longer willing to reconnect. Loneliness or defamation or disease. It’s easy to save someone from jumping, but this is not help. That is not the help they need. They need constant and long term help, assistance, and support.
Saving a stranger from a suicide attempt has a vibe to it like preventing an abortion from happening without providing any further support for the mother or the child. Congrats, you saved a life, technically. But you did nothing to save the life.
This is why I dislike people who stop suicides. It’s their choice and their right. Mind your business, asshole
Ironically though, the ones who are driven to suicide are often the ones you want to keep around. The ones who cause the pain should be removed from our world
As a person who has been suicidal, I respect this opinion, but as a person who lost multiple family members to suicide, I wish someone had stopped them. The fact that nobody did is what keeps me around though, resentfully, because I don’t think my mom could handle it again. It’s a complicated feeling.
I just wanted to acknowledge what you wrote here and offer a bit of good energy for the beginning of your day.
What I think would be most ethical if I saw someone about to commit suicide by jumping (or other means) would just be to use my words to talk with them but not physically stop them.
I’m grateful someone stopped my daughter’s suicide.
Same. My child texted “goodbye” to his friends and they saved him. OC, maybe you’d feel different if the suicide was a loved one, who didn’t tell you how they felt? Fuck any other outcome in my case.
There’s a chance someone else in that crowd understood and began taking daily time to interact with the man. It’s not impossible.
You just doubled the abortion prevention vibe
No you dumbass they are going to be sent to get help.
Nearly everyone that attempts suicide and survives regrets trying and are glad they’ve failed.
Sorry for my strong language, but I’ve had friends and loved ones struggle with mental illness. A few have attempted suicide and either failed or have been stopped. I once took a friend’s gun the day before he tried to commit suicide. If I had not done that he would be dead today, but today he is happy. He has a life worth living and is doing infinitely better.
Suicide attempts are a mental health crisis. In that moment that person is not of a sound mind and incapable of making that decision.
This is nothing like going to a doctor and seeking a medical procedure like an abortion. If anything this is like a woman throwing herself down the stairs in an attempt to end a pregnancy. They don’t need to be allowed to throw themselves down the stairs. They need to be stopped and given access to proper medical care.
“Suicide attempts are a mental health crisis. In that moment that person is not of a sound mind and incapable of making that decision.”
That used to be the case for me as a kid. But lately it hasn’t been very emotional. I’m of completely sound mind. I just don’t particularly enjoy being alive anymore. Death seems peaceful. No pain, no taxes, no humans.
A mental health crisis doesn’t need to be emotional. You’ve described acute depression.
If you aren’t seeking it and can access healthcare do so. Things can get better. A lot in the world sucks, I won’t pretend that it doesn’t. But it all can be better even if it seems like it’s not.
I’ve definently cried and held friends after a suicide attempt and cried when taking them to the hospital and cried again numerous times through the process. It was worth it at the end.
Honestly I’d rather have people like you that realizes the flaws of the world around than people who think everything is great. Only those willing to acknowledge the flaws can work towards changing them. Doesn’t even have to be big just little stuff.
Take care of yourself. I know it’s hard to believe a random person cares, but I do. I’ve seen this all play out too often in my short time here to not care
Suicide attempts are a mental health crisis. In that moment that person is not of a sound mind and incapable of making that decision.
I disagree. Life can be awful and people can make rational decisions to die.
“Mental health crisis” and “incapable of making that decision” just are ways of saying “this person must be forced to give money to the mental health system through compliance with druggings and forced in-patient care that they will be billed for.”
You’re likely part of the mental health industry. Only one of “them” would think 30K in additional debt (paid to mental health workers/doctors) is always better than death.
You’re likely part of the mental health industry. Only one of “them” would think 30K in additional debt (paid to mental health workers/doctors) is always better than death.
Not even close lol. A lot of other people can think suicide is bad too.
I’ve seen a lot of loved ones and friends struggle, but they got through. The debt was definently an issue. I’ve seen friends worried to get treatment due to the fear of lost wages and the medical debt. It is hard, but they got help and it all worked out. I do agree that medical debt is terrible and shouldn’t exist though.
I respect the right to die on your own terms, but when someone attempts suicide in such a public manner, and during the daytime with lots of bystanders around, I feel there’s a chance they might want to be “saved.”
Obviously following up and holistic support would be ideal. But even just putting myself in the shoes of someone walking by, I don’t think I’d be able to just keep walking if I saw someone climbing over the ledge. Just in case.
I had a close older family member attempt when they were in their twenties. They’re in their fifties and a ray of sunshine at family gatherings now. So you never know.
Because religious people have criminalized dying by choice, especially with assistance, it is impossible to parse out impulsive attempts from those who have highly rational reasons for wanting to die.
The solution to this, and many other problems, is simple: ban all religions.
I feel like the religion is more a mirror on society. See how more educated populations skew secular. The mainstream just does what it wants, sometimes gesturing to religion as an excuse. IMHO, anyway. I’m no anthropologist.
I’m definitely in favour of assisted dying. I know if I was planning my death I’d rather have some help. Shame we can’t get the churches involved — culturally, they’re well situated to provide a lot of comfort to certain people.
Then, after you get “saved” from suicide, they strip you of your rights and shove you in a cell for up to five days.
And that attitude is what the staff will have towards you. You are there to be punished for daring to be suicidal and trying to reject the gift of life. You’ll probably lose your job after the hospital stay, and then get stuck with thousands in bills for the “treatment” (sitting in a room watching day time tv while you listen to people in psychosis or dementia getting the shit beaten out of them by the staff.)
But this is a good thing! It’s so much better to be alive then not dead, that’s why we need to abuse suicidal people!
No no, you don’t get it. You have to suicide the slow American way with cancer and heart disease. Pick your favorite form of socially acceptable self mutilation today!
Yepo. I was on a 72hr hold after a manic episode caused by a med interaction (Wellbutrin, took away the mild depression but let the massive anxiety run wild) and it was the worst fucking experience of my life. Literally just stick you in a program that doesn’t give a fuck about why your there, just headcount they can bill for. I was perfectly fine like 2hrs after I got locked in and spent the remaining 70hrs climbing the walls.
0/10 Do not recommend. And this was in Massachusetts, a place wildly known for good healthcare.
I’m in Oklahoma. I went in voluntary a few months ago for suicidal ideation (which I think is a rational reaction to the events of November…)
They upgraded me to involuntary illegally (like, a single therapist accused me of lying when I said I was no longer suicidal, and made the call to hold me.) I had vape smoke blown in my face, was misgendered and assaulted by staff.
I won’t call 988 or any service like that ever. There is no accountability or safety here
Never call 988. Choose life or choose death, do not choose the additional 25 thousand dollar bill, degradation, trauma, and suffering that comes from 988. It’s a trap and the only people who win are big pharma, psychiatric inpatient facility investors or owners, and rich psychiatrists who sling drugs (that barely do more than a placebo), sling false hope, and sling financial exploitation.
Just say no to 988!
My brother used to threaten to kill himself. My mom ended up calling the cops and they took him away on a 5150. They ended up electrocuting him in the facility. No wonder I don’t trust suicide hotlines or therapists.
Just for context, 988 is a Canadian suicide crisis helpline.
That’s so disappointing that one of the first resources that comes up when searching for help would be, essentially, a trap.
This is why I never told anyone when I held a gun to my head. I was afraid it would ruin my life after I didn’t do it.
It would have. You made the right call to tell no one. I hope you are doing better and are happier.
I am thank you. I am married now and don’t even think about that choice anymore!
American detected.
They do the same in the UK too
At least in the uk they let us keep our phones and provide free wifi/Internet access.
Oh I was never allowed a phone or internet
Having internet was the only thing that kept me sane while staying on the wards, which is darkly ironic considering why I was in there in the first place.
I’ve read on threads like these that in the USA and Canada actual therapy is provided for inpatients though, which is something useful at least. In the UK, inpatient facilities are literally just holding pens till they decide if you’re well enough (able to put up with the abhorrent behaviour of the staff without swearing or being visibly distressed for at least 3 days) to be released.
We should make dying in battle a good thing again. The wrong kind of peace is a blight upon society.
We should not. Instead of taking care of it privately, those with ideations would try to kick off or perpetuate a hot war. Those tend to catch people who weren’t in that pickle up in them.
Battle doesn’t require war. We can bring back raiding I know of quite a few churches that deserve to have the copper wires stripped out of the walls. Imagine the price for scrapping a shitty Mormon temple.
i always thought (and pretty sure this is the case in most places) that suicide was technically a crime to give police an excuse to bust in to stop an attempt if needed. not to put people in fucking jail for failing to go through with it.
but then again the us would like any excuse to incarcerate people so who knows.
They don’t put you in jail - they put you in a “hospital” you can’t leave, which is basically a jail that pretends it helps you. Instead, you get maybe 15 minutes with a psychiatrist (I don’t understand how the one from my suicide attempt passed his TOEFL), who will prescribe you anti depressants. Leaving is contingent on agreeing to take these anti depressants. All of the other staff are random, uncertified people who have the legal right to physically assault you. These are the same people that decide whether to give you a grievance form after beating you up (which gets tossed in the trash anyway.)
Research suggests that suicide rates go up after inpatient hospitalization. A substantial aspect of my PTSD is related to abuse as a child in inpatient facilities. I’m an adult that still has nightmares over this shit.
It’s an industry akin to private prisons. Just another fucked up brain child of soulless financiers that value paper over human life.
Because there is no way to prove involuntary care makes suicide more likely (since those with a financial interest will always say the post-release suicides were hospitalized due to having worse mental health), the grifting of the downtrodden will continue.
I long for the day a genius statisitcian finds a way to prove what all involuntarily treated people already know.
Wholesome crab bucket mentality
Nobody asks to be brought into this world. You should be allowed to determine when you’ve had enough.
But not out in public.
Whether out in public or in private is better, depends on context.
Although it’s probably a bit beyond social media debate. When it comes down to “seeing a strangers body floating in the river” , “finding your sibling hanging in the next room” or “found at a kindergarten playground”.
spoiler
All of those examples are based on real life acquaintances who ended their lives, and their discovery. And to be clear: The kindergarten one was discovered before the kids arrived.
If assisted suicide was accessible public suicides likely wouldn’t be common. The number of people with exploded heads that emergency responders find would decline drastically I imagine.
Then where? Not like you can walk into a funeral home and be like “Yep, I’m done, I’ll take your deluxe ‘End it now’ package please”
We could change the laws and allow this.
No one is stopping you from trying this.
No. You stay. Suffer alongside us. No one clocks out early.
Then my life goal is to make my continued existence your daily problem.
Gross
Nope. It’s a bad prescient. Society would be a worse place if life had no inherent value.
I disagree, clinicallydepressedpoochie.
Damn the guy must have felt terrible in that moment.
Well yeah you finally have the knowledge that this earth isn’t worth living in and finally overcame your body’s built in instinct to not die, and some assholes literally force you to stay alive by grabbing onto you like nearly every depiction of hell or hades that has ever existed including tying you to the bridge with ropes.
From a suicidal persons pov that’s exactly what I imagine that would feel like. Also the insane amount of embarrassment from a huge crowd of people that are all there because of you. Some of whom are probably “it’s all in your head” kind of people. It is hard enough to open up and show your feelings to one trusted person, let alone an effin crowd.
That said, the guy that they saved can now say “F you and see you tomorrow” so that’s something.
I bet they chatted shit to him about their god as well
i get that these people need more help than just being convinced not to do it, but in that moment isn’t talking them out of it the right thing to do?
No
I think the question is who are you to force your choices on others?
This hits way too close to home. In my time I have known many friends and loved ones that have dealt with suicidal ideation and a few attempts.
Every single one of them is doing better now. They’ve all built lives and are happy. They are all so grateful they failed or were prevented from killing themselves.
You don’t turn a blind eye when someone is having a mental health crisis. You help them.
To your point in that moment they are not of a sound mind to be making that decision.
I’ve tasted friendship (Ha-ha)
I’ve tasted you (Oh no)
I’ve tasted dying and it tasted good
I’ve tasted heartbreak (Wah)
I’ve tasted food (Uh oh)
I’ve tasted dying and it tasted goodBut that’s dessert
You can have it when the dinner is gone
But that’s dessert (Uh-hoo-ah-oh-ah-oh)
But that’s dessert
You can have it when the dinner is gone
So put it downPlease keep your hands, feet and body fully inside the vehicle.
“But we’re getting so many views right now, fam…”this comment section might be insane
insanely based
Lemmy do be like that.
Poor guy just wanted to take a bath in the river.
But nobody gets to have fun in city waters.Just let him rest, people.
Not everyone wants to exist. We didn’t tell our parents to birth us.
Fuck it
Yet we value life above all else. If people reach that point, where living holds no worth, we as a society have failed them.
But at some point mightn’t it be time to accept that?
That we failed people? I just did.
To accept people want to cease to exist? No. Understand it, respect it, tolerate it if to mitigate unreasonable suffering, yes.
Accept it just because, no. Life is not cheap, discardable or disposeable. So, no.
All adults should have the right to euthanasia.
And even children, if faced with health conditions with no hope or chance of improvement or cure.
I’m not against that. Your life, you should - you are - the only one with a word on how to dispose of it.
But to contemplate death because you see no other option for a life worth living, because society, family, friends, whatever failed you, is not the purpose of euthanasia.
Life is worth living.
I take it you’re pro-life and oppose abortions too? Obviously euthanasia wouldn’t be an option for you, you believe ‘life is worth living’ and a ‘precious gift’ and all that bullshit.
Life is only worth living for those privileged enough to enjoy it; and those with this privilege are going to be fewer and fewer as we progress further into late stage capitalism, fascism, ww3, resource depletion and climate collapse.
It’s nice that you’re having such a great time here, but to deny those who aren’t the right to a safe death justecause you can’t comprehend their suffering -is willfully ignorant and will be actively harmful if this ever becomes something we can vote for.
Every adult who wants access to euthanasia should have access. No ifs, no buts.
I voted in favor of the end of criminalization of abortion in my country; it was the first vote I ever cast and am proud of it.
Not that you asked or even deserve a polite answer after that tirade but I actually saw my mother waste away, for years, as a cancer ate her bit by bit. I don’t wish suffering of any kind to any one, so fuck you and your presuppositions.
And if this answer grants me a ban, I will wear it proudly.
It’s a shame and a disgrace we, as a species, came to the point we are today but if we are to blame anyone - here’s my advice - let’s start by getting our asses from the couch, walk to the nearest mirror and curse at the face staring back at us.
I’m fed up with people that by default take the position that everything is lost and there is no hope. So, again, fuck you and fuck off with that mindset.
Be politically active, stand up for your rights, unionize, talk to other people, meet like minded people, create some change, even if small. Actually do something.
Stop judging for a first.
Did I engage you in bad faith? Refused to answer your questions? I just hold different views from you and will fight to keep them, if necessary at the my own life’s risk.
I’ll repeat it again: I do not want the life of anyone, by default, viewed as discardable or disposable. That is an horrendous way to approach life.
we as a society have failed them.
Yep.
are you advocating for suicide? because it really seems like you are
What is the root cause of suicide. I say finance…
Depression, but a lot of time finance is the root cause of depression.
Mental illness. Not saying suicide is a mental disorder or you need an mental disorder to be suicidal. Its mostly the stigma of both mental illness and suicide.
Sometimes being trapped with your own mind can be hell
It’s not always that.
I really hate the perspective that if someone doesn’t like life, they must be crazy… because (religious reason, spiritual reason, societal obligation reason, etc).
Life can be bleak and sometimes people make a rational calculation that the pleasure isn’t worth the pain. Suicides make people still alive sad so that’s why they are socially unacceptable, but people should be able to make choices without automatically being deemed crazy.
Pregnancy
Suicides no joke.
You have a couple of decades worth of life left to deal with. You’ve got an eternity to be dead, and it could suck worse. Plus, if you’re a Buddhist or Hindu you’re probably gonna have to go through it all again. Might as well see this ride through to the end of the line.
I wish I could put you in my place and make you read that. Fuck you.
Why? It’s a simple risk assessment based one question:
If I kill myself, will it stop the pain?
And the answer is that I don’t know. Neither do you. For all we know, it could be worse.
To me, that’s an unacceptable risk.
Anything you infer or think I’m implying is based on your own assumptions (which are shallow and self-centered - you have no idea about the amount of pain I’ve suffered in my life, so fuck you very much too - pretty arrogant to assume you have a monopoly on suffering).
My original statement isn’t a moral or religious statement, it’s just one of fact. You have a limited amount of time to live. You have (apparently) an unlimited amount of time to be dead, you will be dead eventually no matter what, and being dead could be much worse than being alive depending on what you experience.
The odds that things will get better with suicide aren’t in your favor. That’s just a fact, kid. Don’t be in a rush to make things worse for yourself and everyone around you.
Occam’s Razor: The simplest explanation is often the correct one. It’s a whole lot simpler that there’s nothing when we die, rather than the whole afterlife business.
As a counterargument I’d like to point out that when there’s enough pain present you might just want to tap out.
Especially now since one of the lovely American corporations decided to fuck up pain medication for those that truly needs it for decades at the minimum, because they just had to get that fucking profit.
I’m not even American and I’m on about a third of what I theoretically should be. My doctors admit this, but anything more and there’s a risk of malpractice bullshit.
Hence, pain. Fuck that. I’ll tap out when enough is enough.
The major flaw in your reasoning is that you’re assuming that there’s less pain on the other side. It could be better, but it could be much much worse, especially if you’re carrying the regret of unfinished business left behind.
If there’s any religion I had to adhere to it would probably be Buddhism, which I don’t, really, except for the whole “we’re born, we suffer and then we die” viewpoint. In that specific case it would only lead to more, albeit different suffering.
Unless you’ve experienced daily pain on the side of 5+ for over a decade straight I don’t really give a shit about what you think though, especially if it is because of some religious belief.
I have a few regrets, but no unfinished business I care that much about. If he wasn’t already an alcoholic wreck I’d beat the shit out of my abusive asshole of an excuse for a father but that’s about it.
The simplest explanation is that it’s the same as before you were born. Can you see how a religious view might lead to unnecessary suffering in this life?
It’s not a religious view - you folks need to take a step back and look at the argument, not your own inferences.
It’s an unscientific view. Maybe in the afterlife you get to finally meet the Invisible Pink Unicorn, so what are you waiting for? When you weigh up all the imaginary possibilities, they add to just about zero.
If it’s invisible it can’t be pink.
Invisible just means you can’t see it, not that it can’t be pink. And remember, we’re talking about a unicorn here.
You might believe there’s another side but that’s not important to this situation. You’re projecting your personal beliefs on others.
Literally the entire point of my comment is “we don’t know”. Don’t put words in other people’s mouths, and understand that it’s bad form to attempt to make straw man arguments when you have nothing to contribute to the conversation.
lol more projection. “We don’t know” is exactly like “both sides do it”.
So then do you know? Seeing as you think you’re psychic and all…
lol lol moving the goal posts. Now I have to PROVE my position to you while yours is the default and requires no further discussion. I haven’t had a conversation like this since I was on reddit.
You are the definition of toxic
“we don’t know” is scientific equivalency, like
On the one hand 99 scientists think global warming is real
On the other hand here’s a Maggat “scientist” in a red hat from Bob Jones university with a Ph.D in religious studies and geology who thinks everything is okay.
There’s nothing to indicate any human experience is not the result of biochemical processes and that brain death doesn’t end consciousness.
“We don’t know” = how to tell me you’re a religious cult member without telling me you’re a religious cult member
Well this thread has proven conclusively that atheists are just as closed minded as religious folk. I’ve never seen so many angry idiots argue for suicide.
I’ll spell it out one more time for you dumbfucks and then I’m blocking all your asses.
There is no scientific consensus on what happens to the consciousness after death. Period.
It could just end. It could also mean that you lay there helplessly experiencing the absolute pain of every cell dying, rotting and being consumed as it decays.
It could be that you find yourself trying to justify your sins to Anubis. It could be that you end up in Valhalla.
We simply don’t know. And that makes the risk assessment of the action of suicide (as a relief from the pain of living) volatile to the point where the possible gain in pain relief isn’t worth the loss of your life.
That’s it. That’s my entire argument. It’s not Christian, it’s not scientific. It’s fucking assessing a gambling risk. Grow up and get your collective heads out of your asses - the moral grandstanding because you "suspect’’ I might have a religious view is fucking idiotic and obnoxious - you’re no better than the Christians you think you’re preaching against.
Grow up and get your collective heads out of your asses
I’ll do no such thing!
Well this thread has proven conclusively that atheists are just as closed minded as religious folk.
This is a memes forum. You’re making some very strong assumptions about the people here. Not a single person in this thread has identified themselves with a religion. This is still you projecting your beliefs on the world instead of listening to others.
There is no scientific consensus on what happens to the consciousness after death. Period.
This is not a scientific question. This is a metaphysical question.
If I can’t have confirmation that the afterlife exists, NOBODY gets to kill themselves. Fucking idiots.
